Our Children Are The Guarantors

Defending Zionism from its detractors. Anti-Zionism is a form of anti-Semitism. Let the other side apologize for a change.

Tuesday, January 23, 2007

On a Few Comments on DKos

This diary by litho, Israel: Rethinking 1948, quotes Jewish quisling Ilan Pappe’s book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine to show how the state of Israel was born in “original sin” (the very words of commenter “jimsexton” below—religious language coming from the so-called “reality-based community”) and is morally obliged to make it right (“At the very least, Israel needs to take seriously its obligations to the descendants of those expelled from the country during the War of Independence.”). I don’t have Pappe’s book with me right now, nor the necessary free time to do a comprehensive refutation of it even if I had. In this post I just want to say a few words on an exchange of three comments, by three different commenters, on that thread, a very revealing exchange which might give us Zionists pause to consider our reactions.

Commenter “Florida Democrat”, in his comment, titled “Good Summary of Pappe”, says:

but I can guarantee you, people don't want to hear it. It's quite natural actually. This is to Israel what the ruthless, inhuman and systematic genocide of native Americans is to the US. And just like here, no one enjoys dirty laundry from the past, questioning the heroic epic that is the foundation of one's country. So most either ignores it or find a way to attack the messenger (mark my words!).

But truth is absolutely essential. There can be no justice without it.

Commenter Keith Moon, who should be noted for his many attempts to remedy the sliding anti-Israel bias of Daily Kos and its growing consonance of opinion with Ahmadinejad, titled his reply, “huh”, and said:

This is to Israel what the ruthless, inhuman and systematic genocide of native Americans is to the US.

no it's not

jews were there in palestine and the region - one difference

it's the jews ancestral home - second difference

what is the truth here? there are 14 different versions - this is one, go read the other 13

you're not buying this dairy line r u ?

To which commenter “mickT”, in his comment, titled “So”, replies:

Should the citizens of Tampa Bay be thrown out of their homes to give the Seminole Indians their ancestral homes back? We know for 100% certainty it was their land.

Just curious.

Or does might make right.

Or does having something written in the 'approved' bible mean more than other unapproved documents uncovered about history of the 'sacred lands'.

Does myth make right?

Does strong lobby make right?

I kind of thought that if a family had lived on a land for generations, that might stand for just some small shred above myths/ancient history/brute force. Oh well.

But I guess this is the 21st century. If you have a strong military, you decide.

Let’s see the points we can glean from this exchange. When I thought about it, I was quite startled.

First: “Florida Democrat” compares us Jews to the American newcomers from the Old World, and the “Palestinians” to the Native Americans. The condensed version: Jews are colonial occupiers just as the cowboys were, and the “Palestinians” the indigenous people of the land just like the Native Americans. Yet, judging by his very handle, “Florida Democrat”, he is one of those European immigrants occupying Native American land. He has no problem calling for the “injustice toward the Palestinians” to be addressed, yet it looks as if he is in no hurry to make his own contribution to addressing the injustice toward the Native Americans, in the form of evacuating their land and going back to the European motherland.

Second: Keith Moon, in saying, “It’s the Jews’ ancestral home”, reframes it just as I would, putting the Jews as the indigenous people of the land (whether he believes the “Palestinians” to be indigenous also is irrelevant right now, and anyway, it’s as good as you can get on DKos). The Jews, according to that narrative, are the Native Americans returning to their land.

Third: “mickT” asks if the current citizens of Tampa Bay (Florida), namely the descendants of immigrants from the Old World, should evacuate their homes to give the original inhabitants, the Native Americans from the Seminole tribe, their land back.

So, things work like this:

The “Palestinians” have had their lands stolen by Jewish colonial invaders just like the Native Americans had theirs by the cowboys. The Jewish colonialist invaders should therefore evacuate their colonial settlements for the “Palestinians” to return to them, for the sake of justice. But descendants of the cowboys can stay where they are right now, justice be damned. And if you say the Jews are the indigenous people of the land, rightfully returning to it, then you get the reply that evacuating the existing people to make room for them would be a grave injustice, just as it would not be right to evacuate Florida to make room for its indigenous people, the Seminoles.

Note, note well, that I have not strayed here one tiny bit outside the realm of the post-colonial discourse. All those three comments, and my commentary on them, are within the bounds of discourse about indigenous peoples, colonialist invaders, land rights and justice. Yet even within this tightly confined sandbox, the double standard is here for all to see: the ship is steered toward the destination of expelling Jews from the Land of Israel (G-d forbid), and no other goal; if the Jews are colonialist invaders, it doesn’t follow other colonialist invaders (like that Democrat occupying Seminole land) should be required to follow the same standard, and if the Jews are the indigenous people, then suddenly all the compassion toward indigenous peoples, all the callings for their cause to be addressed, goes out the window.

What do I, and I think all of us Zionists should, conclude from this exchange and its insights? That we should stop giving credit to the post-colonial arguments leveled against Israel. We can see that those who make those arguments are hypocritical in that regard, not following them to full consistency, using them to suit an agenda and not as an absolute moral ruling; why, then, should we give those arguments a better treatment than their originators give them? To all those detractors of Zionism on post-colonial grounds, the reply should be: “Put up or shut up”.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

You would think that Palestinian apologists would avoid the Seminole Indian analogy. Imagine Seminole Indians who are the grandchildren of a generation that recovered some of its ancestral lands. Nobody would say they have to move.

January 23, 2007 1:31 PM  
Blogger ZionistYoungster said...


Most of those apologists suffer from this type of hypocrisy. For example, if they're English then they're occupying Celtic lands, if they're Spaniards then they've got some 'splaining about the Basque business to do, if they're Turks then most chances are there are ancient Greek ruins near them (or perhaps they're living in Constantinople itself), and so on.

The issue you raise, of grandchildren of natives, is the "Your Lease Has Expired" issue, and here too the hypocrisy of the anti-Israel crowd is apparent. I addressed it on my post Colonists Of Their Motherland (toward the bottom of it).

Thanks for the comment. Nice blog (Judeopundit).

G-d bless.

January 23, 2007 5:21 PM  
Blogger dhonig said...

I could not find an email, so I'm putting the comment here. Feel free to use the Single Issue Jew cartoon from Hypnocrites. Thank you for respecting the copyright.

And just in case you're still not sure where I stand on the issue, feel free to peruse the following two diaries on Daily Kos, and to reproduce any part of same:



January 23, 2007 10:46 PM  
Blogger kahaneloyalist said...

ZY, I want to thank you for wading through the Garbage that is Daily Kos to fight for the Jewish people. In all honesty I hadn't looked at it before following dhonigs links, what an education I got. If that is the face of the Democratic party (and there is no question it is the Dems young face if not their whole face) It is time for Jews to leave America before disaster strikes Chas v'shalom. If the idea that the Jews secretly control the world is becoming so mainstream I truly fear for the Jews in America.

January 24, 2007 3:57 AM  
Blogger ZionistYoungster said...


Thank you for your permission and your information (I hope I got that last right). I just updated the post.

By the way, my e-mail is at the bottom of the sidebar, as an image in order to [try to] prevent spam.


The garbage there is usually recycled, but there and then I find out a new reformulation of an old idea, or (as in this post) some lekach for us all.

I hope you aren't right about America's course. So far it's the safest place in the West for Jews to be in (in contrast to moonbat-ridden, Islam-infested Europe). But I do not think for a moment that "sa nes l'kabbetz galuyoteinu" could not apply even to America.

January 24, 2007 8:49 AM  

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